Part 4

ZL: I wanted to ask you about some of your partnerships. You and Howie Albert had one of the most successful and enduring partnerships (as co-managers) in boxing history. I understand you guys still speak everyday on the phone. Can you comment on how you guys met, and something about your relationship?

GC: Well, we met when Emile (Griffith) was going into the Golden Gloves, and Howie brought him down to my gym to start. Howie kept coming to the gym. I said, ‘Look, you’ve been coming down here, you seem very interested. Why don’t I put you in the corner with me?’ And that’s the way we started. From there he started working with some of my other fighters, and eventually all of them.

ZL: You were working out of the Parks Department gym on 28th Street?

GC: That was my last stop. No, CYO was my last stop. But I was working out of the Parks Department gym when Emile came.

ZL: Howie Albert saw that Emile had a terrific body, but that doesn’t make a great fighter? (Albert worked in the Garment Center and Griffith was one of his workers.)

GC: That’s all he saw. (laughs) He had a great body.

ZL: So the stars just aligned on that one?

GC: That’s correct.

ZL: What are some of the other close and lasting friendships you’ve made in boxing?

GC: Ralph “Tiger” Jones. I was very friendly with him, all through his whole career. The picture behind you is from my 70th birthday. That was the last time I saw him. That was 11 years ago, almost 12 now. (Jones died in 1994.)

ZL: You and Angelo Dundee were pals, right?

GC: Very friendly with Angelo for years and years. …Pete Miller was a guy who taught me a lot. He passed away. He had been the Olympic coach. I learned a lot from him.

ZL: Around the time my dad (Lear Levin) shot his film “TRADE,” in 1969-1970, there were a lot of young fight fanatics hanging around, guys like Johnny Bos and “Flash” Gordon. I don’t see many characters like that around the game anymore. (Fight agent/matchmaker Bos and “Flash” used to print a popular boxing rag that hardcore fight fans read religiously.)

GC: Both of those guys are my protégés. I really kept them both in business. Let them hang around the gym all the time, you know, do whatever they wanted to do.

ZL: Were they picking things up just through osmosis? Or did you actually explain, ‘This is what I’m looking at, this is what I’m thinking’?

GC: Oh, no. I talked to them about relevant things. Matter of fact, “Flash,” he used to murder Griffith in his paper. He’d say, ‘Why won’t Griffith fight Bennie Briscoe? He’s afraid of Bennie Briscoe,’ and all this kind of stuff. And I’d sometimes say to him, ‘“Flash,” you use my office…you’re still knocking Griffith. Why!?’ He’d say, ‘Emile’s afraid of Briscoe. Put him in with Briscoe.’ If I’d put Emile in with Briscoe, Emile would’ve won no contest.

ZL: Johnny Bos told me that “Flash” would do the same thing with him. They were friends, but “Flash” would excoriate him in his column.

GC: Well, he was a little nutty.

ZL: Switching gears, if you were the boxing czar—if there were a boxing czar—what are some of the reforms you’d implement to help improve the game?

GC: Well, number one, I think we need just one commission, a national commission. Also, a system whereby fighters are rated by one body, not four or five different bodies the way they’re rated now. Those are the two biggest things.

ZL: Would you do away with the “junior” and “super” weight classes?

GC: I’m old fashioned. The most I would have is 10 championship weights. 8 still is ideal, as far as I’m concerned.

ZL: What else does boxing need to do to restore itself to its past glory? Corporate sponsorship is essential, I would think?

GC: Well, that’s the main thing. I used to work for CBS for years. The sales people said they couldn’t sell boxing to their customers. I think part of the reason they couldn’t sell boxing was because they sat on their rear ends all the time. They wanted the sponsors to call them, and it didn’t work that way. When I was at CBS, I took Jerry Solomon, who was the head of Budweiser at the time…brought him to the gym a couple of times, took him out to dinner, and sure enough Budweiser came and signed a big contract with CBS for quite a few years. But the salesmen now, they’re spoiled. They have their Super Bowl, or whatever the heck they have. They expect you to call them.

ZL: Do you think there’s a prejudice against boxing, compared to other sports like the NFL?

GC: We’re always going to have that. There’s always a certain group that can’t stand boxing.

ZL: Are you optimistic about the future of boxing.

GC: Well, you know, they said boxing’s been dead ever since the time Jack Dempsey lost. And then every world champion after that—Muhammad Ali especially, it was, ‘Ali’s gone…Boxing’s finished!’ Somebody always comes back up to capture the public’s imagination. Right now we’re probably at the lowest point ever, because there isn’t any one outstanding guy…except maybe Oscar De La Hoya, who the public really embraces. That can change in two quick knockouts by some sensation, and it’ll change again.

ZL: Boxing may be at a low point, yet there are still some great fights taking place.

GC: There’s no question about it, but that’s for the fight fans. I’m talking about the people who aren’t fight fans,

ZL: And with a weak heavyweight division, it’s hard to attract general sports fans.

GC: Yeah. Correct.

ZL: Who are some of the fighters today that you watch and admire? Who excites you?

GC: Bernard Hopkins. Oscar (De La Hoya).

ZL: James Toney?

GC: I’ll tell ya, he surprised the hell out of me in that last fight (vs. Evander Holyfield). I mean, he really fought a heck of a fight. But I think he’s a little too small to be a legitimate heavyweight.

ZL: So you’d be surprised to see him take on the bigger heavyweights if/when he recovers from his injury?

GC: Yes. If he ever did, let’s say for example he fought Klitschko and knocked Klitschko out, then you might have a superstar.

ZL: Have you seen any prospects that you’re particularly impressed by? I know you’re involved with Dimitriy Salita, but are there any other young guys that have gotten your attention?

GC: I think they’re quite a few young guys. There’s a kid by the name of Danny Jacobs. He just won the nationals (152-pound class). I think he’s maybe the best prospect I ever saw—and I’ve been in this business over 50 years. I never saw a kid…he can do everything! (Jacobs, who hails from Brooklyn, also dominated his class in this year’s New York Golden Gloves.)

ZL: Do you see him turning pro right now?

GC: I think he should. He wants to stay away for the next Olympics. I think that’s a mistake.

ZL: Do you see him as a junior middleweight or a welterweight?

GC: He’s probably going to grow into a middleweight.

ZL: It was nice to see you broadcasting the Golden Gloves this year. You seemed very enthusiastic about the talent.

GC: This was the best year they had in the last 4 or 5 years.

ZL: Do you like Joe Green? (165-pound NY and national Golden Gloves champion)

GC: Oh, yeah. And Jorge Teron. Those are the three guys I like. (The 132-pound Teron just picked up his third NY Golden Gloves)

ZL: Do you like Joe Green’s prospects as a pro?

GC: Yeah, absolutely, as long as he trains with the right people.

ZL: And how about Jaidon Codrington, who won the NY Gloves at 178? You liked him, too. (Codrington is now 1-0 as a pro. )

GC: Yes, I liked him, too. He’s very similar to Ali when he won the Olympics. He’s about the same weight as Ali when he won the light heavyweights; he’s a tall guy; he can blossom into a heavyweight. And he can be a real good heavyweight.

ZL: That’s a serious compliment. He reminds you of Ali…comparable talent?

GC: Yeah, absolutely. He’s got a lot of talent.

ZL: You said this year’s crop of Golden Gloves champions are the best you’ve seen in 4 or 5 years. How do these guys compare to all the Golden Glovers you’ve witnessed over the past 60 plus years?

GC: These three or four kids we’re talking about are right up there with anybody.

ZL: You mentioned Bernard Hopkins as being a current fighter you respect. Is he one of the best middleweights of all time?

GC: Well…I can’t go that far, no. As a matter of fact, when I was working with Oscar (De La Hoya) and Jerry Perenchio (De La Hoya’s promoter at the time)…When Hopkins knocked out Trinidad, I called Jerry the next day and said, ‘Jerry, the next fight for Oscar has got to be Bernard Hopkins.’ I said, ‘Oscar’s always looking to be a superstar, and this fights so good it’s going to make him—because he can beat Hopkins.’ And about a week later, Jerry decided that he was too busy to handle Oscar anymore, and he just gave him back, gave him away. So it never took place, but now it’s going to take place—I think. And I think Oscar is going to beat him, if he doesn’t bulk up too much. I think that would be a big mistake. (Note: This interview took place before De La Hoya’s poor showing against Felix Sturm. However, I called Clancy after the fight, and asked him if his opinion of De La Hoya-Hopkins has changed: “No, my opinion hasn’t changed,” Clancy said. “It’s strengthened my opinion. Because, if you remember, Oscar did bulk up for the fight and it took a lot of his speed away. That’s how come every time he landed a couple of good punches, he wasn’t moving, and Sturm would nail him right back. I still think he should come down and fight at his most efficient weight.”)

ZL: That would probably surprise a lot of people. But you think he has the right blueprint?

GC: Yeah, I think so. Very similar to Emile Griffith and Dick Tiger. Tiger was the biggest, strongest guy at middleweight you ever saw. He beat guys like Jose Torres, you know. And Emile not only won, he even had him down in that fight—because of his speed. And I think Oscar’s speed will negate anything that Hopkins does.

ZL: When Oscar was starting out, you said he had the makings to be one of the greatest fighters ever. He’s a first ballot hall of famer, no question, but definitely not what we would consider a top fighter all-time. Do you feel that he fell short in some ways?

GC: No, I think he got a lot of tough breaks. For example, I thought he won the (Felix) Trinidad fight. The only fight I think he lost was the first fight with (Shane) Mosley. He fought a terrible fight, a stupid fight. But against Trinidad he was so far ahead in the fight…and they say he ran the last couple of rounds, but it didn’t make a difference. Trinidad still didn’t hit him.

ZL: I agree with you. I thought he won that fight, and probably stole the first 7 rounds. Did he actually let you go after that, and try to pass the buck? (Clancy came out of retirement to serve as an advisor to De La Hoya. He was in De La Hoya’s corner for the Trinidad fight and had advised him to, in essence, get on his bicycle during the championship rounds—as it appeared his fighter had swept enough of the early rounds. But De La Hoya lost in a controversial majority decision.)

GC: No, I can tell you about that. In that fight, one judge, Jerry Roth, didn’t give Oscar ANY of the first 5 rounds. And all he had to do was give Oscar 1, and then Oscar would have been the winner of the fight. Didn’t give him ANY of the first 5 rounds! There’s really no explanation for that, because Oscar was just completely dominating him, you know. (Note: Upon review, it appears Jerry Roth gave 3 of the first 4 rounds to Trinidad; not each of he first 5 rounds, as Clancy states.) …Then, a few months later, Oscar and his father call me. He had a fight in New York (the opponent was to be Derrell Coley). They called me up and said, ‘Well, you know, the fight is going to be in New York, so you don’t have to come out to Big Bear or nothing, just come down and work in the corner.’ And they told me what they were going to pay me, and it was half of what I’m used to getting. So I spoke to Arum and he said, ‘That’s what they want to pay you? Let me talk to them…I’ll call you back tomorrow.’ He called me the next day and said, ‘That’s what they want to pay you.’ I said, “Well, forget it. I’m not going to do it.’ So I didn’t do it.

ZL: Maybe it’s the way the media paints it, but it often seems when something doesn’t go well for Oscar, he cleans house.

GC: Yeah, well, I don’t think it’s Oscar that did it. I think it was one of the other guys. I’m pretty sure that’s what happened.

ZL: So if you could do it over again, do you still stand by what you told him?

GC: Sure.

ZL: If we could go back to discussing some prospects and contenders. I believe Tokunbo Olajide is a tremendous fighter.

GC: Yeah, I do, too. I was there when he got knocked out, too. Geez. (Epifanio Mendoza stopped Olajide in the 1st round. In a bizarre occurrence, Olajide broke his fibula as he fell to the ground after absorbing a two-punch combination to the head, and then dislocated his ankle as he attempted to get up.)

ZL: I think it’s only a matter of time before he proves himself the best jr. middleweight in the world—and that division is thick with talent.

GC: Yeah, Tommy Gallagher really likes him a lot. (Gallagher is Olajide’s manager.) I like him a lot. He can punch.

Back to Part 3
 Part 5 - THE FINAL SESSION

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